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Did Jesus die in vain?

By Arthur Webster of Ask Old Coot

I have just returned from my morning walk with my dogs and was struck, while out, by the terrible thought that the death of Jesus has been wasted. I will not claim that the thought was divinely inspired but it had to come from somewhere.

The Bible tells us that God was tired of animal blood sacrifices and had decided that he should create the ultimate sacrifice - that of His own son, made human. Jesus was aware that his purpose on Earth was to die after teaching mankind the wisdom and desires of God.

In His ministry on Earth Jesus preached love and forgiveness. He taught mankind that it should create a bond of love, even between enemies. This bond was to make mankind unassailable by the powers of evil.

Early Christians tried to live up to His ideals and did, indeed, create havens of love within a secular world that had not heard or heeded the words that Jesus had used to bring forth God's message.

Prior to His sentencing, a hearing before Pontius Pilate created the first ideal opening for mankind to appreciate the gift it was about to receive. Jesus spoke eloquently and made Pilate reassess His level of 'rebellion' against the Roman Empire. Although he recognised the lack of sin in Jesus, he could do no more than wash his hands of the affair and condemnation. The opening was slammed shut.

While awaiting execution a second ideal opening for mankind to appreciate the gift it was about to receive was created when the Imperial pardon was voted upon by the crowds around the place of incarceration. The crowd had been whipped into a frenzy by the supporters of Barabus and slammed the door shut on this second opportunity.

After His execution there was a third opening for the appreciation of mankind of the gift that it had received. Although the physical world revolted at the execution of Jesus, the secular world, the world of mankind, saw no evil in what had been done. Many left disappointed that a soldier's spear thrust had shortened the suffering of Jesus and other soldiers were more interested in gambling for the pathetic belongings of the three dying men.

Even on His resurrection there was a very deep lack of faith in far too many people that He had, in fact, fulfilled His prophecy. Thomas even asked to see and touch the wounds!

After the ascension mankind started to eat away at the beliefs of the followers of Jesus and persecuted them mercilessly. True Christians risked life and limb in order to carry the message of Jesus to all parts of the world. A simple message of love, however, was not enough for the organised religions of the day.

It did not take very long for the pecuniary aspects of the teachings of Jesus to become apparent. The religious latched on to the teaching of not laying up treaures on Earth and started to relieve those who wanted to live on after death of their worldly wealth. Initially this relief was simply allowing the wealthy to part with some of their assets by giving them to the churches but this proved to be a slow process. Ever aware of commercial opportunities, the church then decided that it could sell death-bed salvation and it is only a short step from there to start selling indulgencies, the forgiveness of sins.

Ever open to even more ideas about extracting wealth from their congregations, the church lit upon the idea of creating saints. Now, although granted the power to intercede with God on behalf of supplicants, the church was very careful to ensure that these saints were not seen as even minor deities.

To this day the church claims that Jesus died so that our sins would be forgiven but I wonder if they have got that right. To my way of thinking, Jesus died to forgive sins that had already been committed - not to grant free licence for all the possible future sins that mankind might commit. Surely that is a bit like a judge saying "You are sentenced to five years jail for the crime of theft but, because of extenuating circumstances (you went to confession last week and were granted absolution of your sins by your priest), I bow to the judgement of God and set you free"?

The organised churches are a dangerous malevolence upon the face of God's Earth. They neither preach His word nor do they abide by it. The priesthood is driven, in far too many instances, by the need to acquire wealth. The organised church is dismissive of small groups who try to live by the reported words of God and by their own feelings of what those words mean - despite any corruption and missdirection applied to them by men.

What do you think?

Did Jesus die in vain?

I believe that the blood of Jesus can still wash away our sins. We just have to ask and then live as Christians. Too many think that they don't have to be responsible for what they do after they are saved. There is so much more to it than that! While no human is perfect and we all mess up (even and especially some Christians), the idea is to continuously repent and keep working at it. Under the old law (that of the Jews before Christ), animals were sacrificed and there were so many little intricate dos and don'ts that ordinary people couldn't do it all. What is more, a gentile like myself was not included in any means of Salvation. When Jesus came, he not only came to die for our sins, he came to better understand the human condition. As God above, there was no way of fully understanding what it is to be human. Imagine the frustration! When Christ became man, there was more understanding and he had so much mercy on us all -- even the non-Jews were included. I don't think Jesus died in vain as there will be more included in Heaven than would have been otherwise. He gave us all the chance for eternal life. It is up to each and every one of us to accept it and follow our faith with works.

Hi, Karla,
While I can understand the gist of your resonse, from a logical point of view, how do explain the decision by God to sacrifice His son to express His forgiveness for our sins with the simple fact that there seems no point in the action.
Jesus died 2000 years ago for sins that had been committed but I do not remember reading anywhere in any of the holy books that God said "Go ye and sin for I will forgive you." - indeed the whole emmphasis of God's teaching as preached by His son on Earth was to stop being sinful.

Their mother saw the opportunity for a moral lesson. "If Jesus were sitting here, He would say, 'Let my brother have the first pancake, I can wait.'

We are all born with no beliefs unless you of course believe in reincarnation and everything you come to believe is learned from that point on. It starts really early in life spinning the facts to our own advantage.

I think each person has to weigh the political and religious distortion down through the years and decide what is fact and what is not.

I couldn't agree with you more which is why, as I examine the question, it becomes more apparrent that what we have been taught by the organised churches is a carechism to support and enhance the wealth of the church on Earth.
How do we learn who we can trust to tell us the truth?

Worse, how do we know that what we believe is based upon reality?

I believe that Jesus was one of many many enlightened souls that came to teach and uplift mankind. Like so many others he was crucified for his troubles. Like the others he did not come to start a religion, but others after his death started one in his name. Religions are not formed to be way showers, but populace controllers, as evidenced by the way religion and governments have always worked hand in hand to make money, and keep people uninformed of their true divinity. I am not saying Jesus was not the son of God, but rather we are his brothers and sisters.

Jesus was quite scathing about religions and religious practices although He did not preach against them.
I believe He came as a messenger and I do believe that if the rest of the story is true, that God did, indeed, offer Him up as a sacrifice to save mankind.

The question is, did He want to save mankind on that particular day 2,000 years ago or did He really grant us licence to sin and be forgiven on a regular (weekly?)basis?

The unholy alliance between state and church has been demonstrated as a miserable compromise and a power for evil so many times that I think we can no longer see religion as having any saving graces.

The answer is that he DIDN'T say we could all go out and sin. We have to ask forgiveness and then stop sinning and since we are fallable humans, we end up having to be forgiven a LOT. While I know some church doctrines believe in "eternal security", the one I grew up with taught what the Bible says, "Faith without works is dead." There are numerous references in the Bible that refer to living a new life and not going back to the old. when Jesus was ressurected and went back to Heaven, the Holy Spirit descended. It is the Holy Spirit that helps us as Christians. Regardless of what we do, we are loved, but his death is not a license to do whatever we want. I believe anyone who believes that way is sadly mistaken. People love to quote John 3:16, but there is more to it than that. Some use it as a means of "proving" eternal security", but you can't take a paragraph out of a book. There is much more to it than that. Wheeeww... lol Anyway, now that I've gone on and on, my short response would be "Those who believe Christ's death absolves them of every sin they commit after accepting Him as their Saviour are wrong and they REALLY need to read the Bible."

"Those who believe Christ's death absolves them of every sin they commit after accepting Him as their Saviour are wrong and they REALLY need to read the Bible."

Wise words indeed - so why is the organised church so lacking in wisdom? Every Christian church preaches that we have to ask for our sins to be forgiven regularly. Even the Lord's prayer (as translated by man) has us asking for forgiveness every time we say it. Does this mean that we are such an imperfect creation by God that we simply cannot avoid sinning?
This makes God sound like a somewhat over indulgent parent, don't you think?

If Pilate, and all of the Sanhedrin were well meaning pussy cats, Jesus would have found a way to "get 'er done". It was the reason why He was born.

No, His sacrifice was not a license to sin. But people are people. He knew and knows this. We either have faith in Him, or we don't. A true believer endeavors not to sin. But sin is in our nature. We must confess our sins to others.

Don't confuse your standard "garden variety" sinner (the average joe) with the wackos who are out there. Although God hates all sin, there is a difference.

I've said this before: Put your faith in God and not in "religion". Don't confuse religion with some of the junk that some of these churches preach (and do). And anyway, "religion" is just a word. I don't even think that you'll find it in the Bible.

Hi, James,
Thanks.
The hearing against Jesus was a great illustration of how Pilate's hands were tied when it came to jsutice for the many messiahs around in his day.
The mind manipulations of the mob controllers was really quite something.
We call them psychiatrists, psychologists and politicians today.

I may have to write an Intel on this subject. The short answer is that Jesus gave us the ability to form a familial relationship with God the Father. We accept absolution of all our sins, past, present, and future. Then we go and sin no more (as Jesus said to the woman at the well). We do so, not because we HAVE to but because we GET to. If we fail again, God forgives us again. (70 times 7 as Jesus put it). That was considered infinity by the Jews of the day.

My mother told me when I was a teenager that she really didn't want me to do something. (a vulgar dance as she called it). She then told me that she would understand if I went to a party and danced to the Twist, but that she would be disappointed. I learned to really enjoy the slow dances. Nobody wants to disappoint someone that they love and respect. Not because you fear the punishment, but because you have reverential respect for the law giver.

Hi, Jim,
An excellent point and I look forward to your intel if you get time to write it.
As you say, nobody wants to disappoint someone they love but doesn't that shoe go on both feet? Shouldn't the parent also not want to disappoint their child?
In a way you could be suggesting that God tells us not to sin and then, as He did in Eden, puts forbidden fruit right under our noses, knowing full well that the nature with which he has endowed us leads to inevitable disobedience.

I find it very interesting that Jesus apparently knew how to read and write and yet did not see a need to write any of the books included in the New Testament.

Why do you think that is? If Jesus himself didn't see a need to write it down why did others feel a need to write it down?

As far as I know the only reference we have of Jesus writing anything is found in John 8:6 and John 8:8. That was written on the ground and unfortunately John wasn't inspired to tell us what He wrote. Darn!!

This is where the real problem of the Bible lies.

Jesus preached and taught in many synagogues and temples and was heard by the scribes of the day who would, no doubt, have recorded the salient points of His message. They would have done this to either gather evidence against Him or to give the priests of the day the opportunity to mull over and debate His words at their leasure.
We simply don't know if any of these records still exist because the organised church (as it did in Jesus' day) presumes to know everything that we should be taught and deliberately suppresses anything that is less than comfortable for it.
If the true words of Jesus were recorded and applied, would the Christian church be the immensely malevolent and wealthy power that it is today?
I wonder.

Did Jesus leave a written message? I do not believe that an intelligent man would have had mankind revert to memory and story telling in order to pass on an important message. I am sure he would have used the latest technology - clay tablets, papyrus and writing!
We only have the self serving experts word that He didn't. Even street traders of the day kept written records!

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